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	<title>Comments for It's About Making Babies!</title>
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	<description>Dating, marriage, divorce, family -- and what sex is and isn't.</description>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16035</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 04:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16035</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth,

I wasn&#039;t worried about whether he felt you were being fair.  But the point remains - it is better to treat everyone fair - unless they have established that they are untrustworthy, and are harmful to you and others.  The way he has proven himself to be disrespectful and untrustworthy.

As for the how to state things, your message was clear and fine.

The &quot;I don&#039;t want to talk to him anymore&quot; is the what.  The why is &quot;because . . .&quot;.  The why doesn&#039;t change the what, and the what - don&#039;t want to talk to him anymore - is what you disagreed with me about.  

I think we are pretty much in agreement that he shouldn&#039;t be calling, that you shouldn&#039;t be talking to him.  The explanation of his lack of character, etc., doesn&#039;t change how I feel - that the important thing is to be sure that he knows he has been &quot;cut off&quot; - from communicating with you.  This isn&#039;t for his benefit, it is for yours.  Changing your number, or getting his phone(s) blocked, gives him a strong hint that you are shunning him.  But this is still depending on him to &quot;get the message&quot;, to figure out on his own what you mean by that kind of &lt;em&gt;indirect&lt;/em&gt; communication.  Instead of saying &quot;go away and leave me alone&quot;, he might think his unanswered calls mean &quot;she has fallen and can&#039;t get up&quot;, &quot;she is on vacation, and will return soon&quot;, &quot;she is angry and making me dangle until she gets over her snit&quot;, &quot;she is hurt and wants me to try harder&quot; - you have no control over what it means to him, when you don&#039;t answer the phone.  Notice that several of the few alternatives I mention could mean, to him, that he should keep trying.

And thus my postcard suggestion - brief, not a part of a conversation, if you don&#039;t include a return address - a clear statement of &lt;blockquote&gt;No, I don&#039;t trust you or respect you, and will not want to talk to you ever. Leave me alone, never call or write me again.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Granted, he can still confuse something like that with a game - and that is where NML&#039;s No Contact comes in.  No Contact means that he is unable to contact you, that you never again know that he tried.  When trying to get over someone toxic like that, just choosing, each time, to not answer or return his call - let alone listen to a message - keeps the relationship going.  How do you heal and move on, if you are regularly choosing to ignore this call and that call?

What I mean to say is that it is important that he get the correct message, and that you enforce it.  For your own healing, that enforcement has to be aggressive and positive, you need to take concrete, observable actions to disable his ability to contact you. 

Blessed be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth,</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t worried about whether he felt you were being fair.  But the point remains &#8211; it is better to treat everyone fair &#8211; unless they have established that they are untrustworthy, and are harmful to you and others.  The way he has proven himself to be disrespectful and untrustworthy.</p>
<p>As for the how to state things, your message was clear and fine.</p>
<p>The &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to talk to him anymore&#8221; is the what.  The why is &#8220;because . . .&#8221;.  The why doesn&#8217;t change the what, and the what &#8211; don&#8217;t want to talk to him anymore &#8211; is what you disagreed with me about.  </p>
<p>I think we are pretty much in agreement that he shouldn&#8217;t be calling, that you shouldn&#8217;t be talking to him.  The explanation of his lack of character, etc., doesn&#8217;t change how I feel &#8211; that the important thing is to be sure that he knows he has been &#8220;cut off&#8221; &#8211; from communicating with you.  This isn&#8217;t for his benefit, it is for yours.  Changing your number, or getting his phone(s) blocked, gives him a strong hint that you are shunning him.  But this is still depending on him to &#8220;get the message&#8221;, to figure out on his own what you mean by that kind of <em>indirect</em> communication.  Instead of saying &#8220;go away and leave me alone&#8221;, he might think his unanswered calls mean &#8220;she has fallen and can&#8217;t get up&#8221;, &#8220;she is on vacation, and will return soon&#8221;, &#8220;she is angry and making me dangle until she gets over her snit&#8221;, &#8220;she is hurt and wants me to try harder&#8221; &#8211; you have no control over what it means to him, when you don&#8217;t answer the phone.  Notice that several of the few alternatives I mention could mean, to him, that he should keep trying.</p>
<p>And thus my postcard suggestion &#8211; brief, not a part of a conversation, if you don&#8217;t include a return address &#8211; a clear statement of<br />
<blockquote>No, I don&#8217;t trust you or respect you, and will not want to talk to you ever. Leave me alone, never call or write me again.</p></blockquote>
<p>Granted, he can still confuse something like that with a game &#8211; and that is where NML&#8217;s No Contact comes in.  No Contact means that he is unable to contact you, that you never again know that he tried.  When trying to get over someone toxic like that, just choosing, each time, to not answer or return his call &#8211; let alone listen to a message &#8211; keeps the relationship going.  How do you heal and move on, if you are regularly choosing to ignore this call and that call?</p>
<p>What I mean to say is that it is important that he get the correct message, and that you enforce it.  For your own healing, that enforcement has to be aggressive and positive, you need to take concrete, observable actions to disable his ability to contact you. </p>
<p>Blessed be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16033</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16033</guid>
		<description>To be honest I find your reply to me a bit confusing. I don&#039;t thin you empathize with what I am going through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest I find your reply to me a bit confusing. I don&#8217;t thin you empathize with what I am going through.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16032</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16032</guid>
		<description>Did I mention that he is married with a toddler, and tried to see me on the sly? If this was a fair and honest person then yes I would try to communicate better. Oh and how is saying that he was trying to use me too much info? It is my whole point for ignoring him, if I do not say why then why talk about what he did at all? How am I supposed to state things? I didn&#039;t go into explicit detail or anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I mention that he is married with a toddler, and tried to see me on the sly? If this was a fair and honest person then yes I would try to communicate better. Oh and how is saying that he was trying to use me too much info? It is my whole point for ignoring him, if I do not say why then why talk about what he did at all? How am I supposed to state things? I didn&#8217;t go into explicit detail or anything?</p>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16031</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16031</guid>
		<description>The thing is he never really asked for an explanation. And he was insensitive to me in previous exchanges before I just stopped talking to him. I knew if I engaged him in any manner that he was going to weaken my resolve and then I would become a hamster in a wheel again.I don&#039;t think he respects me very much so whats the point in being fair to him? He wasn&#039;t fair to me, I just gave him a taste of his own medicine and it felt good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is he never really asked for an explanation. And he was insensitive to me in previous exchanges before I just stopped talking to him. I knew if I engaged him in any manner that he was going to weaken my resolve and then I would become a hamster in a wheel again.I don&#8217;t think he respects me very much so whats the point in being fair to him? He wasn&#8217;t fair to me, I just gave him a taste of his own medicine and it felt good.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br: Read the fine print, then watch against changes by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/02/11/br-read-the-fine-print-then-watch-against-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-16030</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=761#comment-16030</guid>
		<description>Thank you for caring response.  I am doing my best to make better choices in whom I become friends with. I really like your blog and look forward to seeing more interesting articles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for caring response.  I am doing my best to make better choices in whom I become friends with. I really like your blog and look forward to seeing more interesting articles.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br: When he is respectful in public, but hateful at home by Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/06/29/br-when-he-is-respectful-in-public-but-hateful-at-home/comment-page-1/#comment-16029</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 02:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=782#comment-16029</guid>
		<description>Wisiunia,

I think the proper place for someone &quot;handsome and hardworking and has a brilliant mind&quot; is in a museum some place, or at least another house - unless his character is sound, his emotional ties to family and friends are healthy, and he understands how and wants to make a home and shared life with you.

It hurt me to read part of your reply, &lt;em&gt;&quot;There is always a rude awakening and reality pierces through illusion.&lt;/em&gt;  This is a self fulfilling promise.  If you always expect things to fall apart - they will.  Even if you have to change your mind about what you want, just to be able to point to him and say, &quot;See, I told you so.&quot;  Believing this is true might be making excuses before hand, so you don&#039;t have to stay in a relationship.  You could, instead, choose to date only reasonable and responsible people that aren&#039;t particularly handsome (handsome and beautiful people usually divert some portion of their self image from character and community to looking good), that may not be particularly brilliant (is he that smart, or does he know how to *appear* smart? Does he use his smarts to make people around him more comfortable and better people?), but comes from a good home, acts with discipline and courtesy - and wants to build a shared life.  Find someone that can hold your respect and that you find joy, sharing beauty with him.  (If you don&#039;t enjoy making him happy, you aren&#039;t communicating and he isn&#039;t who you think he is.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wisiunia,</p>
<p>I think the proper place for someone &#8220;handsome and hardworking and has a brilliant mind&#8221; is in a museum some place, or at least another house &#8211; unless his character is sound, his emotional ties to family and friends are healthy, and he understands how and wants to make a home and shared life with you.</p>
<p>It hurt me to read part of your reply, <em>&#8220;There is always a rude awakening and reality pierces through illusion.</em>  This is a self fulfilling promise.  If you always expect things to fall apart &#8211; they will.  Even if you have to change your mind about what you want, just to be able to point to him and say, &#8220;See, I told you so.&#8221;  Believing this is true might be making excuses before hand, so you don&#8217;t have to stay in a relationship.  You could, instead, choose to date only reasonable and responsible people that aren&#8217;t particularly handsome (handsome and beautiful people usually divert some portion of their self image from character and community to looking good), that may not be particularly brilliant (is he that smart, or does he know how to *appear* smart? Does he use his smarts to make people around him more comfortable and better people?), but comes from a good home, acts with discipline and courtesy &#8211; and wants to build a shared life.  Find someone that can hold your respect and that you find joy, sharing beauty with him.  (If you don&#8217;t enjoy making him happy, you aren&#8217;t communicating and he isn&#8217;t who you think he is.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on br: Read the fine print, then watch against changes by Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/02/11/br-read-the-fine-print-then-watch-against-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-16028</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 01:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=761#comment-16028</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth,

I am sorry that such a hurtful person has come into your life.

I hope your life is filled with people you choose to respect and honor because they are trustworthy and responsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth,</p>
<p>I am sorry that such a hurtful person has come into your life.</p>
<p>I hope your life is filled with people you choose to respect and honor because they are trustworthy and responsible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16027</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 01:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16027</guid>
		<description>For one thing, because his calls go through, he feels he is communicating.  Because you have knowledge that he called - that is communication, too.  So both of you are sending mixed signals about whether you are still available.  What you feel or intend is one thing; what your actions say are something else, and both are open to being misunderstood.

If you got him blocked so his call never got to your phone, or if you change your phone number and have the only number(s) he knows disconnected, then your action agree with your intent - you don&#039;t want to hear from him.  Some people need things really, really simple and clear, before they notice something.

Just a thought - have you clearly, in simple words, told him you don&#039;t want to hear from him again, ever?  Have you used those particular words, or do you expect him to &quot;figure out&quot; that you aren&#039;t returning his calls?  Sometimes a clear communication - maybe a postcard. Please write it one day, and wait a day or three to send it. It needs to be professional, blunt, and courteous; trust me, things like this tend to get shared around families and friends and neighbors - and workplaces.  Whatever he did or didn&#039;t do should have no impact on how you express yourself.  After all, you are not in a relationship with him.  You, at least, are free.

I feel like you put too much information into your comment.  &lt;em&gt;&quot;because he was trying to use me again&quot;&lt;/em&gt; is redundant, you already said that you don&#039;t want to talk to him anymore.  Whatever reason you have for making that choice is yours. Whatever reason you have, even if it were wrong or not the best choice - all it takes is for you to choose to be out of the relationship.  Explanations . . how do I say this? . . I think you owe an explanation after someone asks your reasoning, and only if you trust, respect, and honor that person, or you are in a discussion where your reasons are a needed part of the communication - say, in a business meeting, job application, IRS audit, etc.

Explanations that weren&#039;t requested sometimes show that you are seeking approval from someone.  At times this is necessary, but more often, your respect for yourself and the choices you make would leave you satisfied with stating your decision.  Then, if someone were to ask about your reasons (or challenges your choice), then you can feel free to decide whether the person comes up to the &quot;need to know&quot; mark, and meets your requirements (boundaries) for respect, honor, etc.  In a relationship the need for intimate and personal communication is monumentally important.  This is another reason that your mate should be someone that (almost) always measures up for character - honest, respectful, kind, generous.

This (unrequested explanations) is something I struggle with.  Often my explanations wander a bit from the topic, sometimes distracting whoever I am talking to.  I know that some people find my extra explanations a sign that I am not sure about myself - that I provide my thoughts to &quot;prove&quot; I am &quot;right&quot;, even when there isn&#039;t a question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For one thing, because his calls go through, he feels he is communicating.  Because you have knowledge that he called &#8211; that is communication, too.  So both of you are sending mixed signals about whether you are still available.  What you feel or intend is one thing; what your actions say are something else, and both are open to being misunderstood.</p>
<p>If you got him blocked so his call never got to your phone, or if you change your phone number and have the only number(s) he knows disconnected, then your action agree with your intent &#8211; you don&#8217;t want to hear from him.  Some people need things really, really simple and clear, before they notice something.</p>
<p>Just a thought &#8211; have you clearly, in simple words, told him you don&#8217;t want to hear from him again, ever?  Have you used those particular words, or do you expect him to &#8220;figure out&#8221; that you aren&#8217;t returning his calls?  Sometimes a clear communication &#8211; maybe a postcard. Please write it one day, and wait a day or three to send it. It needs to be professional, blunt, and courteous; trust me, things like this tend to get shared around families and friends and neighbors &#8211; and workplaces.  Whatever he did or didn&#8217;t do should have no impact on how you express yourself.  After all, you are not in a relationship with him.  You, at least, are free.</p>
<p>I feel like you put too much information into your comment.  <em>&#8220;because he was trying to use me again&#8221;</em> is redundant, you already said that you don&#8217;t want to talk to him anymore.  Whatever reason you have for making that choice is yours. Whatever reason you have, even if it were wrong or not the best choice &#8211; all it takes is for you to choose to be out of the relationship.  Explanations . . how do I say this? . . I think you owe an explanation after someone asks your reasoning, and only if you trust, respect, and honor that person, or you are in a discussion where your reasons are a needed part of the communication &#8211; say, in a business meeting, job application, IRS audit, etc.</p>
<p>Explanations that weren&#8217;t requested sometimes show that you are seeking approval from someone.  At times this is necessary, but more often, your respect for yourself and the choices you make would leave you satisfied with stating your decision.  Then, if someone were to ask about your reasons (or challenges your choice), then you can feel free to decide whether the person comes up to the &#8220;need to know&#8221; mark, and meets your requirements (boundaries) for respect, honor, etc.  In a relationship the need for intimate and personal communication is monumentally important.  This is another reason that your mate should be someone that (almost) always measures up for character &#8211; honest, respectful, kind, generous.</p>
<p>This (unrequested explanations) is something I struggle with.  Often my explanations wander a bit from the topic, sometimes distracting whoever I am talking to.  I know that some people find my extra explanations a sign that I am not sure about myself &#8211; that I provide my thoughts to &#8220;prove&#8221; I am &#8220;right&#8221;, even when there isn&#8217;t a question.</p>
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		<title>Comment on br: When he is respectful in public, but hateful at home by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/06/29/br-when-he-is-respectful-in-public-but-hateful-at-home/comment-page-1/#comment-16026</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=782#comment-16026</guid>
		<description>Excellent article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article</p>
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		<title>Comment on br(n): Mixed Signals &#8211; disinterest or differently trained? by Elizabeth Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2010/03/06/brn-mixed-signals-disinterest-or-differently-trained/comment-page-1/#comment-16025</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/?p=763#comment-16025</guid>
		<description>I read how you say that not accepting calls is manipulative and deceitful, etc. Not in my situation. I just did not want to talk to him anymore because he was trying to use me again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read how you say that not accepting calls is manipulative and deceitful, etc. Not in my situation. I just did not want to talk to him anymore because he was trying to use me again.</p>
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