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	<title>Comments on: So, what *do* you do with a drunken sailor??</title>
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	<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/</link>
	<description>Dating, marriage, divorce, family -- and what sex is and isn't.</description>
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		<title>By: Cathouse Teri</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12122</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathouse Teri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12122</guid>
		<description>Funny thing is that I taught my children that dating is for married people.  It&#039;s NOT a way to get to know people.  That is what COURTING is for.  You should get to know people in environments which include other people, not just the two of you.  But alas... we are not of a culture which promotes this.  In the dating world, it is much too easy to be deceived.  By either party.  We worry about the big predators, but we have many emotional casualties because we refuse to see the danger of one-on-one dating.  And minds and hearts get warped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny thing is that I taught my children that dating is for married people.  It&#8217;s NOT a way to get to know people.  That is what COURTING is for.  You should get to know people in environments which include other people, not just the two of you.  But alas&#8230; we are not of a culture which promotes this.  In the dating world, it is much too easy to be deceived.  By either party.  We worry about the big predators, but we have many emotional casualties because we refuse to see the danger of one-on-one dating.  And minds and hearts get warped.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12112</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12112</guid>
		<description>That is tough.  You aren&#039;t her parent or teacher, or anyone else that has &#039;custody&#039; of her, or responsibility for training her or protecting her from danger.  So there is very little you can do.

I guess I fall back to my &#039;don&#039;t explain&#039; advice.  When she asks for your opinion, keep it to 10 words or less, and keep it to the point.  &quot;He is deceiving you.&quot;  &quot;He doesn&#039;t respect you.&quot;  &quot;He is undisciplined - aren&#039;t you afraid he&#039;ll be hitting you, next?&quot;  &quot;Sounds like he is on a perpetual date.  Is that all you want?&quot;  OK, the last couple are arm-pit deep meddling, and push the 10 words limit.  But still.

Otherwise, wish her well, and don&#039;t speak of her guy if you don&#039;t have to.

Perhaps your calmly stated belief of the reasons he is unable to be a mate will eventually register.  She is as bound into an Emotionally Unavailable cycle as he is, and she will only change when she decides to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is tough.  You aren&#8217;t her parent or teacher, or anyone else that has &#8216;custody&#8217; of her, or responsibility for training her or protecting her from danger.  So there is very little you can do.</p>
<p>I guess I fall back to my &#8216;don&#8217;t explain&#8217; advice.  When she asks for your opinion, keep it to 10 words or less, and keep it to the point.  &#8220;He is deceiving you.&#8221;  &#8220;He doesn&#8217;t respect you.&#8221;  &#8220;He is undisciplined &#8211; aren&#8217;t you afraid he&#8217;ll be hitting you, next?&#8221;  &#8220;Sounds like he is on a perpetual date.  Is that all you want?&#8221;  OK, the last couple are arm-pit deep meddling, and push the 10 words limit.  But still.</p>
<p>Otherwise, wish her well, and don&#8217;t speak of her guy if you don&#8217;t have to.</p>
<p>Perhaps your calmly stated belief of the reasons he is unable to be a mate will eventually register.  She is as bound into an Emotionally Unavailable cycle as he is, and she will only change when she decides to.</p>
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		<title>By: lisaq</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12111</link>
		<dc:creator>lisaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12111</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately this isn&#039;t the first time I&#039;ve had conversations about this guy with my friend. She just doesn&#039;t want to see it...and it&#039;s only a little over a month old. Even more sad is that we had many of the same conversations about the previous EUM she was seeing. After she finally dumped him (1 1/2 years later), she said that she wished she had listened to me when I expressed doubts about him. And yet, here we go again....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately this isn&#8217;t the first time I&#8217;ve had conversations about this guy with my friend. She just doesn&#8217;t want to see it&#8230;and it&#8217;s only a little over a month old. Even more sad is that we had many of the same conversations about the previous EUM she was seeing. After she finally dumped him (1 1/2 years later), she said that she wished she had listened to me when I expressed doubts about him. And yet, here we go again&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad K</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12095</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12095</guid>
		<description>@Cathouse Teri, I see we are thinking along the same lines.  The people that need the most protection, are at the worst risk of falling for an emotionally unavailable dead end - need the most to consider forming healthy and supportive bonds.  My hope is that people form cliques of good character, avoiding those of poor character, poor morals - the assclowns.

@Loving Annie, Language is expressive.  But fully and truly describing ourself, expressing intentions, and morals and character, in a clear, meaningful way takes a lot of specific skill and practice.  Most people come close, but then most people are shy on the skill to understand someone&#039;s character from a clear, concise, factual description.  Although most people come close, most people rely on interpretive labels - assclown, EUM, jerk, bar toad.

Which is why I suggest double dates only, and buddying up when not on a date.  That way the risk of going were EUM&#039;s hang out will be easier to avoid, if both are wary.  That way iffy behavior can be observed and you have someone to compare notes with.

The danger for someone that has a history with EUM&#039;s isn&#039;t as obvious as a biker bar or a dark alley.  It takes a different awareness of how EUM&#039;s and other perpetual daters operate.  And it is worth the added logistics and loss of privacy when a cuddle would feel nice, to avoid that particular danger.

Consider it a training exercise.  After three years or so of taking a buddy, helping spot EUM hangouts and activities, you might consider yourself &#039;trained&#039;, and qualified for occasional solo outings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cathouse Teri, I see we are thinking along the same lines.  The people that need the most protection, are at the worst risk of falling for an emotionally unavailable dead end &#8211; need the most to consider forming healthy and supportive bonds.  My hope is that people form cliques of good character, avoiding those of poor character, poor morals &#8211; the assclowns.</p>
<p>@Loving Annie, Language is expressive.  But fully and truly describing ourself, expressing intentions, and morals and character, in a clear, meaningful way takes a lot of specific skill and practice.  Most people come close, but then most people are shy on the skill to understand someone&#8217;s character from a clear, concise, factual description.  Although most people come close, most people rely on interpretive labels &#8211; assclown, EUM, jerk, bar toad.</p>
<p>Which is why I suggest double dates only, and buddying up when not on a date.  That way the risk of going were EUM&#8217;s hang out will be easier to avoid, if both are wary.  That way iffy behavior can be observed and you have someone to compare notes with.</p>
<p>The danger for someone that has a history with EUM&#8217;s isn&#8217;t as obvious as a biker bar or a dark alley.  It takes a different awareness of how EUM&#8217;s and other perpetual daters operate.  And it is worth the added logistics and loss of privacy when a cuddle would feel nice, to avoid that particular danger.</p>
<p>Consider it a training exercise.  After three years or so of taking a buddy, helping spot EUM hangouts and activities, you might consider yourself &#8216;trained&#8217;, and qualified for occasional solo outings!</p>
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		<title>By: Loving Annie</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12090</link>
		<dc:creator>Loving Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12090</guid>
		<description>I think once you are truly aware of what an EUM does - it is easier to spot if you are vigilant. 

And yes, a friend will ALWAYS know if a guy is scummy before you do on your own - they aren&#039;t influenced by chemistry or hope, so definitely tell them the truth and ask for feedback as to whether they guy appears to be upfront and treating you right - without making any excuses when/after your friend speaks her - or his - mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think once you are truly aware of what an EUM does &#8211; it is easier to spot if you are vigilant. </p>
<p>And yes, a friend will ALWAYS know if a guy is scummy before you do on your own &#8211; they aren&#8217;t influenced by chemistry or hope, so definitely tell them the truth and ask for feedback as to whether they guy appears to be upfront and treating you right &#8211; without making any excuses when/after your friend speaks her &#8211; or his &#8211; mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathouse Teri</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12088</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathouse Teri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12088</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a cool plan!
But I don&#039;t think it&#039;s gonna happen.
You&#039;re on the right track, though.

What you have to do is make sure you are living a life where you have some strong, developed friendships.  There is safety in numbers.  We really are accountable to one another to provide oppportunities for growth and health.  In all areas of our lives.  But this sort of safety is found in small numbers.  Very few people we know really care about our well being.  They are often confused about why they want the pleasure of our company.  And are also often confused about why they want you to date (or not date) someone.  

Yes, in general, when the big red flag finally does show up, it&#039;s far too late to warn someone.  But the reality is that even if we had seen it earlier, we are of a society that just does not develop this sort of &quot;checks and balances&quot; system for our mental health.  That is why there are so many self-help books out there!  We want help, but we don&#039;t want to have to invest in actual relationships to get it!

When our lives are woven through the lives of others (not entangled) then we already have the inner strength that we have found in our own understanding of that, and we also have the benefit of those who know us well and can back us up in weak moments.

Still, if someone does take your advice, I&#039;ve no doubt it will help a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a cool plan!<br />
But I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s gonna happen.<br />
You&#8217;re on the right track, though.</p>
<p>What you have to do is make sure you are living a life where you have some strong, developed friendships.  There is safety in numbers.  We really are accountable to one another to provide oppportunities for growth and health.  In all areas of our lives.  But this sort of safety is found in small numbers.  Very few people we know really care about our well being.  They are often confused about why they want the pleasure of our company.  And are also often confused about why they want you to date (or not date) someone.  </p>
<p>Yes, in general, when the big red flag finally does show up, it&#8217;s far too late to warn someone.  But the reality is that even if we had seen it earlier, we are of a society that just does not develop this sort of &#8220;checks and balances&#8221; system for our mental health.  That is why there are so many self-help books out there!  We want help, but we don&#8217;t want to have to invest in actual relationships to get it!</p>
<p>When our lives are woven through the lives of others (not entangled) then we already have the inner strength that we have found in our own understanding of that, and we also have the benefit of those who know us well and can back us up in weak moments.</p>
<p>Still, if someone does take your advice, I&#8217;ve no doubt it will help a great deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Honey</title>
		<link>http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-12087</link>
		<dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.itsaboutmakingbabies.com/2008/08/14/so-what-do-you-do-with-a-drunken-sailor/#comment-12087</guid>
		<description>When I lived in Florida, my best friend and I would keep our eyes on the other out at bars or clubs, and if either of us saw the other with an unworthy and suspected that beer goggles may have gotten in the way of rejecting that person, we&#039;d whisper &quot;not our lane&quot; in the other&#039;s ear, and they&#039;d know to ditch him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lived in Florida, my best friend and I would keep our eyes on the other out at bars or clubs, and if either of us saw the other with an unworthy and suspected that beer goggles may have gotten in the way of rejecting that person, we&#8217;d whisper &#8220;not our lane&#8221; in the other&#8217;s ear, and they&#8217;d know to ditch him.</p>
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